Сура

Selem Sura.

Wiki-soft içine özgerişler kirtem, tt_RU atlı östeme locale bolaçaq. Yasalğan bolğan tt local'dan özim eylendirip qoyam da, qalğanın öziñ tözetip çığarsın, tilegiñ bilen boş ara bolsa endi. Local asılı yasalıp bitkeç kine bo serverniñ içteligin özgertip qoyarmın da, default local etip tt_RU yazıp qoyam. Şonnıñ bilen temam bolaçaq.

Ney törli yerdem ete bilirmin tağa... Yöklewçi atlı bot qollanıp waq-töyek özgerişler kirtiw oñaylıraq bolır eydi, tilegiñ bolsa indeş. Bolayraq işlene ol:

1. Special:Export atlı bet açıp, tözetesilerin kirtesiñ de, sanağıña indirip alıp, XML keliş tözetip otırasıñ
2. tözetmeleriñ ezir bolğaç endi email'ıma köndiresiñ
3. Yöklewçi qollanıp özim yöklep qoyarmın

Bir yolı 1'000 de bet yöklep bola.

Albert Fazlî 20. Mar 2008, 11:52 (UTC)

Революциямы?

5 ел латин әлифбада булгач, хәзер кирилага күчәме? Кайда бу яңарыш турында игъланнар бар? Нишләп әгъзалары белмичә торалар? --Rad8 21. Mar 2008, 11:45 (UTC)

meta:Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Tatar Wikipedia
ru:Обсуждение Википедии:Проект:Малые разделы Википедии на языках России Сура 21. Mar 2008, 12:08 (UTC)

Рәхмәт. --Rad8 21. Mar 2008, 12:33 (UTC)

Vandalism in progress: Stop pages moving

This section is intended to get administrator attention quickly when dealing with current instances of vandalism.

Not a vandalism but a useful work.

Case: User Сура . Novice. No own pages. Just moving other's pages without preliminary discussion. Alphabets mixing (see Рәсәй Föderasiäse [here]).

Yes, this was the first page but after I decided not to change alphabet inside articles first.

Actions: user must be blocked. His edits maked without broad discussion must be reverted.

Do not move any page without preliminary discussion [Here]. If you prefer one alphabet over other, just create your own pages. You must reverts all your edits. Otherwise you will be blocked. Coriander 21. Mar 2008, 13:51 (UTC)

As per alphabet you may look at the whole discussion first. Links are above. Сура 21. Mar 2008, 14:19 (UTC)

Honestly I don't care about alphabets and discussion in other wikis ru:Обсуждение Википедии:Проект:Малые разделы Википедии на языках России. I just know: nobody can make dramatic changes without preliminary discussion here in Tatar Wikipedia. Also, I noticed You are new to tt.wikipedia. Do You know which format (cyrillic, Latin or mixed 2 sections in same page) they prefer. Do you discussed this with other members of tt.wikipedia? Is any consensus reached here (in tt.wikipedia)? Thanks. Coriander 21. Mar 2008, 14:56 (UTC)

OK and what about Meta discussion? Of course I spend time to understand what is the problem, where it is and how to solve it first before started doing such great changes. By the way nobode opposed. Сура 21. Mar 2008, 14:59 (UTC)

As per 2 scripts - it is the best variant but I might be done only if first make all the content in one code - now there are 3 different latin scripts and 1 cyryllic. It is much better to change everything itno cyryllic and make an automatical transliteration into latin (as in Kazwiki for example). It should not be made in pages as as the content will never be identical but if an automatic converter will be made it would be identical. As per bot-pages it is defenitile garbage which make it harder to do all nessesary changes. Сура 21. Mar 2008, 15:19 (UTC)

OK and what about Meta discussion? Of course I spend time to understand what is the problem, where it is and how to solve it first before started doing such great changes. By the way nobode opposed. Сура 21. Mar 2008, 14:59 (UTC)

Again, only tt.wikipedia users can make decision about formats, headers etc. If you offer something new: open discussion here, gather opions and so ever. To guide discussion or make significant contributions you must also understand basic language of this wikipedia (in this case Tatar). Coriander 21. Mar 2008, 15:32 (UTC)

Hm. As per users and rules... I see you registered just today and as I guess just to stop me. You do not have your personal contributions to this wiki and also do not have any personal page (I put a link to my page recently). So what is reason for your anxienty? Сура 21. Mar 2008, 15:40 (UTC)

I'm not against you. I'm against way what you doing. Looks like you acting with goodwill but miss guided. Just explain other members step by step what you going to do and what benefit will be from that. Keep in mind: you can't speak Tatar. In this case Tatar speakers must decide: are you right person to make total refactoring?. It's all. Coriander 22. Mar 2008, 18:22 (UTC)

ОК. To my and not only my mind the problem is that the whole wiki started as a great original research as it uses script code Zamanalif which is not adopted by any officials anywhere. Besides these script it also has one more original research's script and at last official latin Yanalif-2 in two variants: official original and official adopted. And the 5th script is official and the most spread one - cyryllic which has a 70 years of development, official orthography, great literature tradition and is being understood by the wast magority of tatars. And the other great advantage of this script that it has only one variant. Everyone agreed that tatar wiki should be at one time in 2 scripts (or even 3 incl arabic) as kazwiki do. This scripts mast be automatically converted without any waist of time. But it is clear that 4 different wariants of latin can't be converted in one cyryllic, to avoid this mass all the content should be first converted into doubtless cyryllic. That tatar wiki community should decide itself what latin variant mast accompany cyryllic and a strict convertor should be implemented. No many potential contributors does not want to do with this wiki because of language mass, I think 2 things should be done first - converting of headers and category tree into cyrillyc, this will result to changing interwiki in other wikies to show that the process started and that search engines will start find cyrillyc headers that could be a kind of advertisment for tatar wiki. As per bot pages - this is a definite garbage whic makes it only harder to make all the work. As per my capasity to do anything look at Рәсәй page, I tried to start converting the content by hands not automatically letter to letter but trying to use the words which are used in tatar writing tradition (searching tatar sites). Сура 22. Mar 2008, 19:36 (UTC)

Your actions are realy wrong

1. As you are not newbie, you should contact with administration before making of any sensible changes, and you dont replied on my first message;
2. You have saved our convertor from the tugan-tel site to root of your disk C:, and use it for convertion. It's not right while our convertor works with mistakes. You can't convert pages while you are not native speaker;
3. Are you realy thinking that all non-russians are stupid by default? Somebody sayed me that it's russian tradition. What for is your dont asked 'help'?
4. Your work is realy useless, while I can do it "at once". I have enough experience in modern programming technologies to make correct convertion of databese dump, and upload the converted database back;
5. You are not a new user of Wikipedia, and your actions should be responsible;
6. You should revert all your moving actions in cases if script used in content of page is not the same as header's script. In future a page convertion should be done complete, not header only.

Albert Fazlî 21. Mar 2008, 17:38 (UTC)

OK. I will answear all the questions.

1. I think that all the administration as I see already discussed the situation 2 or 3 times before I start doing anything. I have replied to all the messages and to all people and placed my oppinion in all the discussions. As I mentioned above I found no opposition. (I have just realised you are talking about the first message above, but I'm really do not understand tatar language to read this - I just understand you gave me a sysop flag and thought according to your position in the discussion that you agree to my actions)
2. I have not saved any convertor from anywhere, I did not visit tugan-tel site and even do not know about the existing of this convertor. Everything I did I did only "with hands" I can convert headings not being a native speaker as I'm rather goog in linguistic and it does not take to much time for me to understand how should I correct the script (just point at any mistake of mine). By the way how it may be automatically converted for ex Föderasiäse into Федерациясе?
3. No I do not think that all non-russians are stupid by default, also that all russiand are stupid by default. Why I should ask for help if I red all the discussion and have no questions after it.
4. I thought about it but as I see nobody could really do this, only talking about. You yourself decided to close the wiki instead of doing anything "at once", even to try to do.
5. Of course all my actions where responsible, I can answear about the reason of every my action here.
6. I have already written what was the reason to convert headers first: search engines. I really think that it will make native speakers willing to contribute. Of course I myself am not able to change all the content, ecpecially if you could do it at once without much work but for some reason prefer not to do it. Сура 21. Mar 2008, 19:14 (UTC)

• Anyway I stop doing anything now as I do not see what will be the result and will there be any result. As per bot-pages I think it is possible to delete them by bot also - it is too boring to delete them by hands :) I think it is better delete them all to see clearily the real situation with content. But it is only my oppinion. Anyway I think I did everything to make it better not worse. Сура 21. Mar 2008, 19:47 (UTC)

Original articles must be preserved

Ok. I see you start little bit listenning others. But keep in mind: original articles in latin script with latin headers must be preserved for latin readers and tagged to corresponding latin categories. For example , you now converting article Рәсәй. Latin variant of this article with latin header must preserved and must be available for latin readers. Otherwise converting will be considered as attempt to promote one type of alphabet only. Coriander 23. Mar 2008, 04:27 (UTC)

They would be preserved for sure. Just look at history page and you may in 10 seconds take latin variant (or any other you need) and copy it to any target page. But realy it will be never need as automatical converter would convert cyryllic text into latin and vice verse. Сура 24. Mar 2008, 08:53 (UTC)